Andrew Huberman had the pleasure of introducing Chris Voss, a former FBI agent and lead crisis negotiator, who has not only penned the best-selling book "Never Split the Difference" but also imparted his negotiation wisdom at prestigious institutions like Harvard, Georgetown, and the University of Southern California. Voss, a master of navigating tough conversations across various spheres such as business, relationships, and work, underscores the significance of tuning into our own emotions as well as those of others during discussions.

Voss delves into the critical role that both physical and mental stamina play in steering difficult conversations and making decisions. He shares insightful techniques to suss out dishonesty through pointed probe questions, equipping listeners with a deeper comprehension of the negotiation process and how to execute negotiations effectively.

Chris Voss and Andrew Huberman engage in a rich dialogue about the art of negotiation, exploring different categories and the importance of pinpointing the real issue at hand to avoid unfavorable deals. Voss highlights the necessity of assessing the trustworthiness of the other party and the benefits of injecting a playful element into negotiations. He shares anecdotes where a lighthearted approach paved the way to negotiation success and emphasizes the value of embracing others' perspectives to craft unique negotiation strategies.

Staying calm is paramount in negotiations and challenging situations. Voss suggests adopting a soothing voice, akin to a late-night FM DJ, to tranquilize both oneself and others. He discusses how emotions like anger can serve as a stepping stone out of sadness and the importance of emotional shifts for a positive mindset. The impact of low-frequency sound on the brain is also touched upon, as it can alter emotional tone and induce calmness. Voss recounts an anecdote where blasting high-volume music was attempted as a tactic but ultimately proved unsuccessful.

Negotiations can have either a negative or positive connotation. Negative negotiations are about securing what one desires and can range from hostage situations to botched business deals. Conversely, positive negotiations strive for mutually beneficial outcomes, as seen in friendships or romantic relationships. Knowing precisely what you want before entering a negotiation is crucial. The term "win-win" can sometimes be a red flag, signaling a lack of authenticity or trustworthiness. In benevolent negotiations, being heard is essential, and starting with a hypothesis can facilitate this process. Collaborating and testing hypotheses can lead to superior outcomes and new discoveries. However, caution is advised when someone uses catchphrases like "win-win" early in a negotiation or offers grand opportunities without a budget.

Building rapport and benevolently exploring a topic are key in fostering relationships. Demonstrating generosity can yield success in business and collaborations, as giving without expecting anything in return can forge long-term bonds. The practice of not keeping score when borrowing and lending, providing positive feedback, and acting out of goodness without demanding too much can lead to fruitful results.

Chris Voss shares his personal commitment to physical fitness, which he maintained during his tenure with the FBI and continues to prioritize through various methods, including cold plunges and saunas. He believes in the synergy of a good diet and spiritual practices, emphasizing that physical well-being is integral to mental and emotional effectiveness. For Voss, self-care is not about self-centeredness but about being better equipped to make a positive impact on the world.

In his line of work, Voss has encountered high-friction negotiations with potentially disastrous outcomes. He recalls a negotiation in the Philippines where a hostage was taken by a terrorist group, and through a measured approach, the hostage was eventually released. However, in a subsequent negotiation 13 months later, three hostages were tragically killed due to friendly fire. These experiences underscore the importance of collaboration and communication within a negotiation team.

When it comes to hostage situations, understanding the captors' motivations — be it money, body, or life — is crucial. Recognizing patterns in their behavior and the specificity of their threats can aid in gauging the seriousness of their intentions. The negotiator's objective is to make the captors feel they've gained everything possible without being taken advantage of. Specific threats with clear details suggest earnestness, while vague threats may be mere intimidation tactics. Confirming the captors' ability to follow through on threats is vital in evaluating the legitimacy of their claims. Authenticity and leverage are influential in negotiations, as the other side will concede when they feel content with their gains. In any negotiation, both parties want to feel they've earned their keep, so making the captors work for it through questioning and delays is key.

Urgency is a common tool used by scammers to exploit people and induce mistakes. Immediate action requests are red flags and likely indicative of scams. Scammers prey on the desire to help and be a rescuer, using urgency to their advantage. It's crucial to verify the source before taking any action and to ask for confirmation from the person claiming to be in need to determine if it's a scam. Emotional manipulation, such as claiming a loved one is in danger, is a common tactic to extract money. A sense of urgency should always be treated as a red flag in potential scams, and even if scammers have a loved one, there's no guarantee of their release upon compliance. Legitimate questions are necessary to gather more information and assess the potential outcome.

In the legal profession, probing someone's finances to see if they can pay is a common practice. Lawsuits often revolve around money rather than the actual incident, with inflated settlement amounts used to intimidate the other party. Lawyers must discern whether the other side's claims are genuine or mere puffery, a negotiation that occurs frequently in places like California. To gauge the seriousness of the other party, lawyers ask direct questions about the desired settlement amount. The reaction and thought process behind the answer reveal more than the answer itself. In high-friction negotiations, wearing down a Cutthroat negotiator with passive-aggressive tactics like peppering them with questions can be an effective strategy.

The process of wearing down an aggressive person is not about manipulation but about neutralizing the threat they pose. This approach involves asking legitimate questions about how and what to gradually reduce their stance. It's crucial to clarify their intentions for compliance before giving in. Vision drives decision, meaning their plan for implementation should be clear. Discussing alternative options and clarifying the compliance process are examples of this strategy. A hostage situation in Venezuela serves as an example of human nature and investment. Verbal commitments are significant, with the last promise often being the most reliable. The negotiator can determine if someone is lying or telling the truth based on their previous behavior, aiming to stack the odds in favor of successful implementation.

Voss recounts an experience where he couldn't relax around someone, and his body had a physical response, signaling that something was off. Five years later, he discovered a series of lies from that person. He believes that our gut is a somatic sensor for detecting deception, influenced by various inputs, including pheromones. There are capabilities of the nervous system that science is beginning to explore, such as the ability to detect magnetic fields and heartbeats synchronizing when listening to the same story. Voss posits that the subconscious is the brain's real supercomputer, where wisdom resides, and tapping into it can provide valuable insights. He emphasizes the importance of listening to our gut instincts.

Negotiations can occur face-to-face, over the phone, or through text, with each mode offering different cues. Face-to-face negotiations allow for additional information through facial expressions and body language. However, reading body language is not always accurate and is highly contextual. Noticing shifts in affective behavior is important, and double-checking information during negotiations ensures understanding. In-person negotiations provide more physical information but can also be overwhelming. Techniques like labeling, mirroring, and open-ended questions are useful for gathering more information. The process of double-checking may seem inefficient but helps ensure accuracy, and asking for repetition is not as direct in online or text negotiations.

Online and text communication often bundles too much information into one message. Keeping messages concise and focused on one point is essential, akin to playing chess by text. Voss shares an example where he texted and called a filmmaker to address an issue with a documentary, avoiding unnecessary small talk. The two-line text message efficiently communicated the problem and set up a phone call, leading to a quick solution within 10 minutes. The direct and concise communication style fostered a problem-solving mindset, and the filmmaker's offer to bear the cost of fixing the problem demonstrated generosity. The success of the fast and efficient communication led to future collaborative requests from the filmmaker. Voss emphasizes the importance of being a straight shooter and delivering the truth in a soft manner.

Ending relationships, whether romantic or business, requires directness and honesty. Rejection is unpleasant for everyone, and it's important to soften the blow. The person delivering the bad news should consider the other person's ego and help them see that the separation is best for both parties. People often struggle with this because they are more concerned with saving themselves than the other person. Timing is crucial, with Monday being a better day to deliver bad news than Friday. A warning should be provided before delivering the bad news, and it's essential to rip off the Band-Aid and deliver the news quickly rather than lingering on it. People are resilient and can handle pain if given the opportunity to brace themselves.

Ego depletion, akin to decision fatigue, is the concept that defending one's position depletes dopamine and causes ego depletion, which is different from fatigue caused by long conversations. Ego depletion can be observed in hostage negotiations, where wearing down the hostage leads to them giving in. However, in business negotiations, ego depletion is not effective because the recharge of the ego can lead to deviation from the agreement. Personal disagreements can also lead to ego depletion, but resolving them after a good night's sleep can lead to different perspectives.

Approaching conversations playfully helps to see more opportunities and maintain a relaxed mindset. Relaxation allows for a wider perspective, while tension narrows focus. Good negotiators practice readiness for unexpected situations and are mentally and physically prepared. Small, everyday interactions can be used to practice negotiation skills. Asking open-ended questions can lead to state changes and reveal genuine responses. Triggers like asking about what someone loves can create shifts in mood and provide insights into their values and priorities. Understanding someone's true motivations allows for better alignment in negotiations. The question "What do you love about what you do?" can elicit candid responses and reveal someone's core values, helping to negotiate from a place of authenticity and understanding.

People have different propensities to vent, often approaching those they trust to express their frustrations. Venting can amplify feelings of frustration, and one approach is to let the person negotiate with themselves to help them more. Venting can spiral out of control, and it's important to understand what is driving someone to vent. Deactivating negative emotions can prevent harm, and practicing spirituality can be beneficial for mental health.

Voss reflects on the image of FBI agents sitting in cars, eating hoagie sandwiches, and looking through binoculars, recalling long and fatiguing negotiations, such as a hostage crisis in Washington D.C. in 2003. He emphasizes the importance of not running oneself into the ground and knowing when to take time off to recharge. He shares stories of sieges, such as the six-day standoff in Saint Martin's Parish and the famous Princess Gate Siege in London, where keeping the terrorist on the phone until the SAS came in was crucial. Voss accepts the challenges and implements strategies in his line of business.

In the late 80s or early 90s, a case in Sacramento involved a youth gang taking over an electronic store called Good Guys, where they held hostages and eventually opened fire on them. The use of bags over the hostages' heads dehumanized them and made it easier for the gang to harm them. There is a debate about whether hostages should comply with the demands of their captors or resist. By humanizing themselves and complying, hostages may have a better chance of survival. Giving a name to someone or something humanizes them and creates a relationship. The release date for the tactical empathy documentary is estimated to be early next year, and the support and guidance from William Morris Endeavor have been valuable. Voss is happy with the people he is working with on the documentary project.

Empathy extends beyond feeling someone's pain; it can be used tactically and for understanding different perspectives. Empathy is about transmitting information, while compassion is the reaction to that transmission. Empathy does not require agreeing, disagreeing, or liking the other side. Tactical empathy is about verbally demonstrating understanding to make the other person feel heard and cared for. It can deactivate negativity by calling it out instead of denying or ignoring it. Empathy is a powerful skill that feels like compassion to the other person and can have a positive impact on interactions. Empathy can be effective even with individuals with disarrayed circuitry in their minds, such as paranoid schizophrenics. Empathy involves letting someone feel understood, without the need to feel or do something about it. Mirroring is a tool used in tactical empathy, but further details are not provided in the text.

Mirroring is a simple and effective communication skill that involves repeating one to three words that someone has just said. It activates a different part of the brain than labeling people and helps to connect thoughts and messages. It can be used to ask for more in-depth explanations and help people hear themselves and expand their thoughts. Mirroring is a useful tool for hostage negotiators and in business because it requires minimal effort. Neuroscience is starting to study the effects of mirroring on brain interaction, but more research is needed.

Proactive listening is emphasized as a valuable skill, with active listening criticized as overused and poorly taught. Hostage negotiators are taught to label presenting emotions, and neuroscience suggests that the survival brain is largely negative. Calling out negative emotions can diminish their impact, and proactive listening involves anticipating and addressing negativity. Proactive calling out of negativity can inoculate against its effects, and personal anecdotes support the effectiveness of proactive listening. Proactive listening can improve relationships and outcomes, and the speaker expresses appreciation for the tools of mirroring and proactive listening.

Employing family members of kidnappers as a way to tap into their psyche is acknowledged, with the understanding that some people who have done horrendous things can still have positive aspects to their personality. Questioning whether understanding the other contexts of a person's life is important in high-stress situations is made, with a distinction between hostage takers in a contained situation and kidnappers in an unknown location. Family members can be part of the system that puts the hostage taker in a contained situation, and they can be helpful if they say the right things, but it requires careful planning and orchestration. Direct conversations with family members can bring up old wounds and make the situation worse. Family systems psychology suggests that understanding the family system is crucial in understanding a person's psychology, and family dynamics and past pains can contribute to a person's struggles. Movie versions of involving family members may not accurately reflect the complexities of the situation.

Finding ways to unload the heaviness and complexities of a high-stakes job is important, with suggestions of getting good sleep and socializing with coworkers as important coping mechanisms. The need for tools and processes to dump emotional baggage and restore a sense of optimism is emphasized, along with the importance of supportive relationships, laughter, and understanding in dealing with difficult emotions. Satisfaction in accomplishments and drive as an entrepreneur is mentioned, with the influence of learning from FBI and hostage negotiator experiences in promoting a positive work culture. The role of humor, hard work, and appreciation in maintaining mental health is highlighted, with the mention of occasional consumption of alcohol as long as it is done responsibly and in moderation. Support for the love of bourbon is acknowledged, while personal preference against it is noted.

Fireside is a new social media platform that offers interactive group coaching, founded by Fallon Fatimi and Mark Cuban, and provides a video component for direct communication. The monthly coaching costs $1,000 a year, making it more affordable than regular coaching sessions. Fireside allows participants to ask questions and receive coaching in real-time, and the platform is still in the experimental phase and is being used to provide negotiations coaching. The interactive nature of Fireside allows for better implementation of the tools and concepts presented, and the ability to relate and build rapport with participants is crucial for effective coaching. Building rapport can lead to better adherence to advice and greater success in implementing changes. There is a companion book in progress for tactical empathy, but it is still a year and a half away from being finished. In the meantime, the author is focused on providing online training, a weekly newsletter, and sharing information on various platforms like Instagram.

The speaker emphasizes the importance of using the phrase "sounds like" in communication, believing that simple tools can have a powerful impact on resolving negotiations and changing interpersonal interactions. They express a wish for children to learn early on how to use "sounds like" to improve listening skills and understand others better. The speaker considers the phrase "sounds like" to be one of the most potent tools in the world, hoping that adults and children can implement this tool in their communication. They discuss the challenge of teaching children the value of listening and critical thinking. The interviewer expresses gratitude for the speaker's valuable contributions and knowledge-sharing, commending them for their work in various mediums such as Instagram, book, courses, and podcast. The interviewer thanks the speaker for their role as a phenomenal communicator and for their late-night FM DJ voice, with the speaker reciprocating the gratitude and expressing admiration for the interviewer's work in providing actionable tools to navigate effectively.

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Link to podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8CHXefn7B4

These notes are my take on the podcast and not word-for-word. I did my best to get it right, but mistakes happen. So, take them with a grain of salt, use them as a map, double-check the details by listening to the podcast yourself and take responsibility for your actions. Hope you find them helpful!